That seems like an odd narrative to sell.
The "puke point" is going to be on the dollars -- and those commitments for what they call the out years. If the Marlins aren't going to budge much on how much they cover and yet still command the kind of prospects they want, then the puke point will be that dollar figure just beyond the one the Cardinals can calculate for the worth they think they'll receive. One thing that was explained to me was how the Cardinals could arrive at that number: They could consider Stanton's salary in the first four years of the deal and the fact that his production will out-play the salary, so that makes paying more down the road palatable if they just think of it as a carryover. More specifically: If Stanton is owed $25m in 2018 and produces like a market value of $32m then that's $7m that the Cardinals are just going to have to eventually be ready to pay when his salary is $32m later in the deal and his production is down to $20m or $18m on the open market. The prospects the Cardinals are ready to give run the spectrum of premium pitching and current roster players, so the "puke point" is going to be that dollar figure they have to cover.
Not really. They'll move on a deal if they feel it harmonizes with what they want. They have numerous conversations going, and from what I can tell see several of them as viable directions to go. I have only heard that they've been "dedicated" in their talks with the Marlins, and from an outsiders perspective the Cardinals were seen as "aggressive" with their talks to Marlins.
One moment. Got to step aside to take care of something. Don't get all excited. It's just a standard, paperwork moment here at the GM meetings.
Stand down. Take a breath.
As of today: Most likely that Carpenter and Gyorko are both on the roster for 2017. The Cardinals do see and recognize that Gyorko could have value in the right trade and would look to deal him depending on what they do with the third base position.
Sure. But keep in mind that all of the teams benefit from that same wellspring and it's one of the reasons why you'll hear people talk about all the money in the game.
Another Marlins outfield. An infielder in Toronto. Pivoting toward a glove-first shortstop, if such a deal could be hatched with a team out west or a team within the Midwest. There remain several directions the Cardinals could go, and we didn't even get to the free agency. And while you're going to hear the Cardinals connected to Martinez as some people try to drum up his market, the price he's likely to command would be a break from the norm for them, but Carlos Gonzalez? There's a player they've sought in the past, lefthanded, and certainly would be in play if other targets retreat or go elsewhere.
Good catch, and an excellent point. the timetable would be outlined in the deal, and it could always be adjusted as long as both sides agree or there is a reason (such as an injury) for the teams to need to reassess or shift.
This has been kicked around by a few teams who believe that a piggyback approach to pitching is viable, and we've seen that work in the minors. It takes more than five starters, obviously, to pull it off, and it is something of a college quarterback situation. If you have two quarterbacks, then you don't really have one. Or, in baseball, if you have a committee of closers you really don't have one you can count on. It's a cover. Same thing here. Some teams start thinking and talking creatively about the rotation when pressed to do so because they don't have five arms to fill the rotation. The Mets are thinking about some alternative ways to deploy a rotation. The Cardinals are thinking about being more aggressive with relief the third time through the lineup for some of their starters. These are all things that are in play, and as relievers start to make more and more and more more you could definitely see a shift to something Dave Duncan and I once talked about: the shadow rotation. That is, a four-man rotation with a three-man group that fills in for those starters. Like interlocking gears they cover for shorter starts and longer middle-inning relief appearances.
The 40-man deadline does not force the Cardinals to make a move at all this week. That deadline is Nov. 20, so they still have a week from today to make those moves.
The only time I've ever heard this come up is that the Marlins could sell Stanton on the fact he doesn't have to move for spring training and can still be about as close as possible to the palatial condo he purchased in Miami. Seems like trivia as much as anything.
One of the reasons I joke -- somewhat -- that Mozeliak should just move to Florida this winter and camp outside the Marlins office is the talks they must have about the complex in Jupiter, Fla. With the Cardinals there for another decade and two new teams in the area, there is money for improvements to the facility and the Cardinals want to make them. They have outgrown their side of the complex, and they want to add some facilities, improve the weightroom, upgrade the clubhouse and on and on. One catch. They cannot begin work on anything beyond the walls of the current building until the Marlins also agree to invest the same on their side. Part of the lease is the fact that the two sides must keep up with each other so there isn't an imbalance, so if the Marlins or Cardinals leave there isn't the chance that the other side will just be a ghost town or unappealing. The Cardinals need that resolution with the Marlins, that commitment from the Marlins.
I say this with 100 percent certainty: I just don't know. I doubt anyone involved in the conversations truly knows today.
Only if he's good. I come from the camp of Best Pitcher. Best Pitcher is always preferable to the lefty or the righty or the trickier. I know that there are some who like the New Look School -- a lefty mixed into the rotation gives the opponent a new look to adjust to, something different. But that is fleeting or foolish. Just get the best pitcher. And if that best pitcher that quality start monster is a soft-tossing lefty then so be it, so be it. Just get the best pitcher, and if you have similarities between some pitchers then maybe separate them in the rotation, but not at the expense of quality.
Yeah. That's a good description of him. Intriguing, but not yet coveted. Rising, but not yet prominent.
The Cardinals recognize they are in a position where they may have to overpay for their desired player, but the payoff will be the guy they want -- or rather a guy that they know will fill the need that they have -- and that the residual benefit would be creating clarity of the roster, even if it's a two-for-one deal that does it. They are aware of that being beneficial.
Because he's under contract for one more year. Gives the Cardinals a bridge to wherever they need/want to go a year from now. And he's that fear factor that the Cardinals were lacking at a position that they could create an opening. That's why there are conversations, not just smokescreen.
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They have not. A little early for that, this week.
It makes sense that they would have a new reliever before the end of the month, yes. Each year, the market has its usual rhythm.
By more serious, I imagine you're trying to infer or imply or suggest an injury. It's not all that unusual for the workload to get to a pitcher. We saw that with Flaherty to a certain extent. His velocity dipped. His production dipped. More than one scout described that year at High-A Palm Beach as just "flat," and that can happen when a player is dealing with the innings and the between-start work and all of the things that go into being a pro that add to the wear/strain put on a shoulder or an arm or a body. That takes an adjustment. Flaherty reset and blossomed. Alcantara was challenged to do the same once he realized how he had to keep his body strong for the longer haul. There are numerous examples, especially for the younger players like Oviedo.
At last check, he was moving on.