Cardinals chat with Derrick Goold

Cardinals chat with Derrick Goold

Bring your Cardinals questions and comments, and talk to Post-Dispatch baseball writer Derrick Goold in a live chat at 1 p.m. Monday..




    Hi DG
    Not exactly a good weekend for STL sports fans was it? Still feel good about the Blues winning it which is way, way better than I feel about the Cardinals that’s for sure. Their anemic offense is dis heartening, sick and tired of a good beginning to a game, as in 4 runs in the first and nada afterwards. This team seems to have no penchant for hammering the other team into oblivion. Oh for the days of Lankford, McGee, Clark, Rolen, Edmunds, Albert that seemed to pound at an opponent for 9 innings, just piling it on. This team, all they pile on is strikeouts. On top of that we are stuck with extended contracts which I would guess would make it more difficult to move any of them. We need a Chris Carpenter type pitcher to lead the attack, but we have none, maybe in the future but not now.
    The newness of Shildt and his efforts seem to be waning. These players are not producing and seem to be complacent, at best.
    Thanks for letting me blow steam off.
    The Chris Carpenter statement is interesting -- not because of the tossing over tables or the whole "embarrassing ourselves" speech but because of the starter who wasn't just a stopper, but a lifter, an impenetrable wall that would stand against a rival, a losing streak -- any hostilities. Cardinals are searching for that starter.
    Hi Derrick: I give the Cardinals a lot of credit for trying to build a great team without tanking, without high draft picks and without spending a fortune. However, can we agree that it either can’t be done or this ownership group is not the one to do it?
    We can agree that the middle is a bad place to be. I'll go that far.
    Is the Voit trade Willie McGee in reverse ?
  • Slow down, Buck Rogers.
    Why did the club rush to move Gyorko to the 10 day IL? It seems like they been shorthanded many times due to their reluctance to put guys on there.
    Absolutely. This group is less likely to let something like that linger than in the past, though. That's what stood out to me. Gyorko wanted a chance to prove he could play -- if not this weekend, then in Miami. And Shildt, looking for anyway to win at Wrigley that he could (check out those relief moves Saturday), didn't want to be handcuffed by a short bench. So they made the move. In the past, we've seen them linger on that decision, linger and linger, and play short and have it come up costly. Shildt specifically said he didn't want to repeat that -- not with what was going on, not with how they were playing, and I am going to presume here, not at that place. Gyorko was not thrilled.
    Cardinals in 2011 were said to have this top notch farm system with all this talent they were not going to trade away? Question where is all that supposed talent?
    Well, let's look, shall we? I happy to have my 2011 Baseball America prospect handbook handy, and we can see just where that talent has gone.
     
    1. Shelby Miller -- Traded for Jason Heyward, arguably best player on 2015 100-win team, and when he signed with the Cubs the Cardinals drafted Dakota Hudson, whose doing OK.
     
    2. Zack Cox -- didn't reach the majors. But was traded for Edward Mujica, who became an All-Star for the Cardinals as a closer.
     
    3. Carlos Martinez -- still here.
     
    4. Tyler Jenkins -- part of the deal for Heyward with Miller.
     
    5. Allen Craig -- cleanup hitter for a pennant-winner in 2013. Traded for John Lackey, who was a part of that 2015 team that won 100 games, ran out of gas in October.
     
    6. Lance Lynn -- gave the Cardinals 16.0 pitchers WAR, left as free agent when the phone didn't ring asking for him.
     
    7.  Eduardo Sanchez -- Brief look. Plucked off waivers by Cubs.
     
    8. Seth Blair -- Didn't reach the majors. Is the only pitcher the Cardinals took in the first round from 2006 to present day who was released before reaching the majors or being a part of a trade that netted a major-league talent.
     
    9. Jordan Swagerty -- Released in 2015.
     
    10. Joe Kelly -- Did OK for himself as part of the Cardinals' rotation and bullpen, helped a pennant-winner in 2013, and was part of the deal for Lackey mentioned above.
     
    11. Matt Carpenter -- You're familiar with his work.
     
    12. Daniel Descalso -- You're familiar with his work for a World Series winner in 2011.
     
    13. John Gast -- Had a moment, had an injury.
     
    14. Fernando Salas -- once led the Cardinals in saves, so much so that as they were about to non-tender him the Angels offered Randal Grichuk and Peter Bourjos in exchange for him. Probably should have included Randal Grichuk in the above poll.
     
    15. Adam Reifer -- Didn't climb much higher.
     
    And from there you have Maikel Cleto (claimed of waivers by KC), Adron Chambers (scored a big run and was a Sept. pinch-runner), P.J. Walters (part of the 2011 trade that jumpstarted a championship team), Francisco Samuel (had a moment, struggled), Pete Kozma (chills just ran through D.C. with the mere mention of his name).
     
    24. Oscar Taveras.
     
    25. Tony Cruz -- Molina's longtime backup, now coach.
     
    26. Bryan Anderson -- never became the backup imagined.
     
    27. Adam Ottavino -- Done ok for himself, made millions, taught the Cardinals a lesson about development that has helped them nurture contributors since.
     
    28. Daryl Jones -- Did not find success in Class AAA.
     
    29. Steven Hill -- Had a solid career as a catcher in the minors.
     
    30. Ryan Jackson -- reached the majors.
     
    We could go forward to the next year and see Trevor Rosenthal, Martinez, Kelly, and others who were key parts of the 2013 World Series team. In fact, throw in Michael Wacha, drafted in 2012, and the Cardinals had a fifth of their roster from the 2013 pennant winners come from the ranks of the farm system that was considered one of the best in the game. In the next few years they would produce the players that they traded for Ozuna and then traded for Goldschmidt, and also traded for Brandon Moss. 
     
    Hope that answers your question.
    A few years back when the Cubs were drafting bats and our Cards focus was pitching, it was suggested that Card fans shouldn’t rush to judge the focus and time would reveal who went the better direction.

    I ask can we assess it now?

    While I understand tanking gives you better selections, that is not Dewitt’s Stlouis business model. He knows St.L won’t allow tanking. But he chose the path that generates the most revenue for his team.
    We can somewhat with the understanding that the Cardinals never had a crack at the bats the Cubs drafted. I think this could be a fascinating exercise, so let's look.
     
    2011
    In the first round, No. 9 overall, the Cubs select Javier Baez, INF. The Cardinals don't have a pick until No. 22 when they select Kolten Wong. 
     
    2013
    Jeff Luhnow and the Houston Astros decline to take the best hitter in the draft first overall, leaving the Cubs the lottery ticket of Kris Bryant at No. 2. This prompted changes in how the Astros do the draft, and down at No. 19 the Cardinals selected Marco Gonzales.
     
    2014
    The Cubs, recognizing the lack of power available in the draft and the direction the game was going, surprise some by taking Kyle Schwarber fourth overall. The Cardinals didn't have a pick until No. 27. They took Luke Weaver, and then soon after, at No. 34, got Jack Flaherty.
     
    This past draft was one of the few in recent years -- not going back 10 to the whole everybody passed on Trout stuff -- that I can remember the Cardinals have a selection of bats to choose from at their pick and going with a pitcher. They know their type. 
     
    Bryant and Baez, one MVP and another MVP runnerup, are huge parts of the Cubs renaissance and hold on this division -- which they did not win this past season. No doubt. But they're top-10 picks, and the Cardinals haven't been in that realm in a long time. Contrast that with how much the Cubs have had to spend on pitching because they have produced one homegrown pitcher -- is that right? -- during this run. They had one homegrown pitcher on their postseason roster in 2016. So it's taken them millions to compensate for what they cannot develop, and where can we can assess this difference is the Cardinals, until Goldschmidt, had not spent million to compensate for what they cannot draft.
    If the Cardinals continue to play around .500 ball does each passing day force the hand of the front office in more serious consideration given to proactively act in dealing out a popular veteran or two like Ryan Ludwick was in 2009?
    These days what’s the difference in a tanking organization or a middling one?
    Tanking ones draft higher.
    Is there any hope that Carlos Martinez could move back into the starting rotation after the All-Star break?
    Growing dim, it sure seems.
  • Speaking of the 2020 schedule. When will it be available?
    Usually it's around August or early September. There are reports of it long before then.
    You’ve defended Matheny’s managing for years; would you now concede that it was a failure, when judged by the Cardinals Organizations publicly stated goals each year? Same question applied to Mo. They took a 2011MLB champion and drove it into a ditch, like the Phillies did (their reasons were different).
    It's honestly like 2013 never happened. Defend is not the verb, I'd use. I offered Matheny a chance to explain his managing. I passed along those explanations to you, and I did my best to point out when they didn't make sense -- to him, to you, to whomever.
    What popular veteran could they ship out? Who has interest to another team with a friendly contract? And more importantly, would they actually be seeking big league talent in return, or just more minor league fillers?
  • They could explore deals with any of the outfielders. They could take offers on their second baseman. There are places they could go if they want to upend the roster -- Craig/Kelly-style or Rasmus-style.
    Are the Cardinals going to be able to sign Trejyn Fletcher?
    At last check, yesterday, they remained encouraged. They made some picks elsewhere to clear the money to offer him above slot. They'll do that in part because they have a good feel for what the first-rounder will take to sign.
    In your opinion, if a member of the Cardinals called a players-only meeting; 1) who would it be; and 2) who SHOULD it be?
    1) Anyone.
    2) Anyone any day now.
     
    I mean, they already one. It hasn't had the lasting power hoped. 
    Maybe the owner should want to win as much as the fans do .
    I would imagine that's ideal, yes. Maybe even more. In many places, the owner has more at stake than the fans.
    Any insight on what us fans should figure is probably going on with the talks involving 2nd round pick high school prospect Trejyn Fletcher at this time?
    I'm not sure I understand the question entirely. The talks are happening. There are some wrinkles to this stuff as far as not announcing a deal to skew the round. You don't see over-slot deals announced until the slot deals around them are finalized. That's just curiosity of the draft. One thing in play here is just discussing the complete parameters of the deal. It's going to include covering his cost of college later in life if he signs. That's standard. It may come in concert with the first-round pick. If Johnson signs for less than slot, then you'll see Fletcher get above slot. And so on. Another part of this is the Cardinals have a few first-10-round picks still alive in the NCAA Tournament. That factors in as well as they may take some added bonus.
  • I get the Cardinals have not had a chance to draft very high in the draft due to their success, but neither have the Dodgers or the Yankees, and their farm systems have been loaded with talent for quite a few years. It just seems like the Cardinals, who have done well drafting and developing pitchers, have really struggled to draft and develop elite MLB position players, and honestly, at least this year, their heralded pitching depth has really fell off fast.
    It doesn't seem like it. They have. Period. This is not something they can hide from or spin, the facts are there. The stories have been there. The Cardinals have not done well when it comes to developing impact position players. The Dodgers and Yankees have had their share, but let's not ignore the fact that the Yankees bailed on a season not to long ago, turned Miller/Chapman into prospect depth and had a quick reboot. Perhaps that's a model the Cardinals should consider, could consider, but they haven't considered.
     
    The Dodgers have two supremely talented homegrown position players for sure that they have gotten from the draft: Corey Seager and Cody Bellinger. In each case the Cardinals had the pick right behind LA. Bellinger was a fourth-round selection in 2013, 125th overall. Every team in baseball passed on him multiple times. At 126th overall, the Cardinals drafted Mason Katz. 
     
    In 2012, Seager went 18th overall. Cardinals took Wacha 19th overall.
     
    In 2014, Alex Verdugo was the Dodgers' second-round pick. Cardinals didn't have a pick until much later in that round, and they used their two picks ahead of the second round to get Weaver, Flaherty. 
     
    The miss was in 2015, Walker Buehler. He was taken by the Dodgers 24th in the first round of 2015. The Cardinals had the 23rd pick. They used it on Nick Plummer, an outfielder who has been slowed by a serious hand injury and has not yet reached the upper levels of the organization. Like we said at the beginning, this isn't a revelation: The Cardinals have not done as well as they need to or want to developing position players/impact bats. Paul DeJong is the current class of the group. They hope Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman and Malcom Nunez are in that next wave.
     
    Also the Yankees and Dodgers have the revenue to paper-over their mistakes, dabble in the international waters, and in LA's case spend what a quarter of a billion dollars on Cuban players and get ... Puig? The Dodgers this year are paying $40 million to players not on their roster. For them, they can and still win. That doesn't get brought up in the prospect rankings.
     
     
    What about Wacha's bullpen performances made the Cardinals feel that he is ready to start again?
Powered by ScribbleLive Content Marketing Software Platform