Join columnist Jeff Gordon for his live STL sports chat at 1 p.m. Friday
Bring your Cards, Blues, Mizzou, SLU and MLS questions and comments, and talk to columnist Jeff Gordon in his weekly live chat.
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In August of 2021, the Cardinals added 2 starters, Happ and Lester. This August they had to do it again. Glad they did it, but why do the keep finding themselves in this hole? After the latest moves, Mozeliak was asked why didn't he beef up the pitching prior to the start of the season, when the asking price was much lower. E.g., he could have had Quintana at that time for a much smaller price. His answer was that hindsight is 20/20, he had lined up 5 starters prior to the season, and the Cards had no spots available in the rotation to provide an opportunity for additional pitchers. I believe you said in April that the pitching was short; pitchers were going to get hurt, and the team needed 5 or 6 capable guys at the big league level and another 4 at AAA ready to step in when needed. Mo seems to be a pretty smart guy most of the time, but he seems really dumb on this one. He should not have made this mistake in 2021, and for goodness sake, it is amazing he did it again. Should we look forward to going through this nonsense again next year. Any sign the FO will ever figure out that we need more capable pitchers PRIOR to the start of the season? -
Last winter the Cardinals had somewhat of an excuse because of the lockout. They lost touch with their players and were unpleasantly surprised that both Jack Flaherty and Alex Reyes showed up for spring training with bad shoulders. Also, the marketplace shut down during the lockout, so the shopping period became abbreviated. Going into next season, the Cardinals will have better organizational depth because they didn't move any of their pitching prospects. They lost Johan Oviedo, but they have Jordan Montgomery for another year.That said, this year's unhappy experience offered fair warning that lining up affordable veteran depth (like Jose Quintana) can make life much easier. If a team somehow ends up with too much pitching, other teams will be glad to make trades. But what are the odds that any team ends up with a unmanageable pitching surplus?
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Congrats to John Mozaliak for not succumbing to the hostage demands of Rizzo. Renting Soto for 2+ seasons, who is having an off year, was simply not worth the number and quality of players requested by Wash. However, I will expect the organization to significantly upgrade the starting pitching during the off-season to elevate this team to championship status. It’s time to move past building a pitching staff that can be good if everything goes right which it never does. Thoughts?
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Every pitching staff will suffer injuries. Every pitching staff will have guys coming back from injuries. All teams can do is line up as much quality and quantity they can fit on a 40-man roster and the minors below. Clearly the Cardinals fell short of that standard during this past offseason. They will have better organizational depth given the progress of Zack Thompson, Matthew Liberatore, Gordon Graceffo, and Michael McGreevy, but they must aim to have a strong six-man rotation at the big league level backed by a strong five-man rotation at Memphis. Aiming lower than that is asking for trouble.
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The team will miss Harrison Bader's fielding for sure. Dylan Carlson is doing a fine job in centerfield in his stead, but Bader's absence will make it harder to start a less accomplished outfielder (like Juan Yepez or Alec Burleson) while looking for a better offensive matchup. Playing Carlson there makes Lars Nootbaar's fielding in right field more valuable.The Cardinals went into the trade deadline hoping to add more swing-and-miss pitching. They failed in that regard -- so while the pitching additions may help them reach the bracket, they may not do much to improve their odds of making a deep run.
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I agree on Dakota Hudson. The thought on Andre Pallante is the he could be a "plus" reliever to bridge games to the late innings. His stuff is suited to that role and pitchers often add a tick or two to their velocity by moving out of the rotation into shorter outings. The Cardinals desperately need another strong reliever.Hudson remains a work in progress as he tries to regain his old form after Tommy John surgery. It will be interesting to see how long he can last tonight against that powerful Yankees lineup.
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Jeff- seems like we can compare the Padres to the Rams . The Padres are looking to win the WS in the next 2.5 years and if they don't then I think their trades have to be labeled a failure. If they do I think they will happily take a WS win and then mediocrity for a few years . The Cards on the other hand aren't willing to risk winning a couple WS for a future after Goldy and Arenado of mediocrity . they are willing to be playoff participants but not necessarily require a WS winner.. Fair comparison ?
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The Padres/Rams comparison is interesting because both followed earlier success with a long stretch of futility. After years of losing, both franchises went on in all-in spending spree on talent. In the case of the Rams, Stan Kroenke let his front office go wild to put a great product in his new stadium after tanking the Rams in St. Louis. He was smart enough to know that a Scott Linehan-caliber product would no sell in SoCal, even in that stadium.As for the Cardinals, they continue to meet their stated goal of perennial playoff contention. They don't do windows. They don't want to build a four- or five-year competitive window, then let it slam for four or five years. Hence the team's unwillingness to move any top prospects at the trade deadline.And, yes, those top prospects give the franchise a chance to build a more special team that crave once this Reunion Tour ends.
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While the failure to get Soto has many potentially positive outcomes -- Walker grows into a superstar, Winn becomes a poor man's Ohtani, Gorman becomes the LH power bat we wanted Soto to be, etc -- the failure to get him is still giving many fans nightmares. I think some of it was fear that the failure to grow into a Series contender would cause Arernado to opt out, a valid fear that might be a little less after his postgame comments yesterday. But I still think there are two valid concerns that will keep the nightmares coming:
1. It would appear Mo learned the wrong lesson from 2006. His comments about "get in and get hot" suggest he views 2006 as a team that was mediocre and just got hot at the right time. But even though injuries kept the record mediocre, the 2006 team wasn't designed for 86 wins and a little luck. The '06 team was built around the same MV3 core, and Carpenter/Mulder/Suppan/Isringhausen pitching core that, had it been healthy, could have won 100 games like its 2004 and 2005 predecessors. The '06 team didn't get in and get hot/lucky; the team got healthy and won as it was DESIGNED to do.
Soto would have created a new MV3, lessening the load for others, and allowing the Carlsons, Gormans and other survivors of the trade to grow lower in the lineup. Such an offense would be DESIGNED for success. And it's no secret that our only other title since '06 featured a poor man's MV3 of Pujols, Holiday and Berkman, supplemented by David Freese getting hot at the right time.
2. By failing to get Soto, the Cardinals allowed the Padres to elevate themselves to the level of the Mets and Dodgers -- teams DESIGNED to win 100 games, teams that, on paper at least, appear nearly impossible to oust in the playoffs. Even if the Cards win the division, they will have to go through two of those teams, as well as possibly Braves, Phillies and Brewers teams that, while flawed in ways the Big Three aren't, still have as much talent as the Cards, and thus a solid chance to knock us out as well.
I wouldn't have traded Walker or Carlson in a Soto deal, and that probably would have meant that I wouldn't have acquired him, either. But I also would acknowledge that creating a super Padres team means the Cards just can't tinker around the edges. Cardinal management has to acknowledge the aggressiveness of the teams in their way and design their team accordingly. Add Syndergaard ... add the LH power bat for your new MV3 ... design the team for 100 wins. -
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Jeff, I read where the Blues were tied with Tampa Bay for having the most players with full no trade clauses in their contracts, seven. Then you look at team’s line Carolina, Washington and Boston who each have one. Obviously other teams can sign quality players without getting hemmed in by NTC. Do you see Army changing his stance on this?
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I expect the Blues to regularly have six to eight high-end veterans at any given time, so, given market conditions, that's about how many players will have some level of no-trade protection in a given year. That's that nature of the business. Doug Armstrong targets guys he really believes in. He has made his share of mistakes, but he has maintained a high level of talent and experience without putting much dead money on the payroll.Carolina churns its roster more than most teams -- certainly more than Armstrong would like. Cap Friendly lists Washington and Boston with eight players with some level of no-trade protection. If Patrice Bergeron and David Krejci sign with the Bruins, that number could reach 10.
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I’m so happy Julian Javier is being inducted into the Cardinals HOF. We are so focused on the players today that we forget the impact players like Javier made in his day. I’ve been beating his drum for a few years now. For all those who advocated for his enshrinement, thank you!
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These additions filled needs, but they fell short of the stated goal of adding swing-and-miss stuff. So BenFred and I agreed that this was a B-minus deadline. On the other hand, the Cardinals did not overpay -- so they can put those kept assets to work while trying to build a more special team going forward.
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While Alec Burleson has improved his fielding, his hit tool is his best tool. With Harrison Bader (and his ability to take away alleys) long gone, the Cardinals should make fielding range a bigger part of their right field equation. This is why the team would love to see Lars Nootbaar continue his offensive growth. He plays a pretty good right field.
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